Talk:Terrence Malick

"Numerous" critics?

In the opening paragraph, I don't think citing only Roger Ebert counts as "numerous" critics. This definitely sounds like a NPOV problem to me.

Mormon

According to one of the latest editions of "Vollbild", a film magazine on DR Kultur, Malick is a Mormon (which surprised me, because I always thought he was an esoteric). Maybe this should be included in the article.

Cite error

There's a cite error - a reference to an undefined referenced "Michaels". Dan56, it looks like you added it, so maybe you know what the correct attribution should be.—Anne Delong (talk) 11:29, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Terrence Malick paternal ancestry

When there is a lack of sources with statements coming straight from the person in the article that clarifies issues such as their ancestry, as in this case with Terrence Malick since he is a very private person and has rarely given interviews, we can only rely and state what the second best sources we have say, which in this case are biographies by reputable writers.

So far 4 biographies have been about Terrence Malick:

https://books.google.se/books?id=_m7cDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA193&dq=terrence+malik+assyrian&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiRwueQ7o_wAhVKEncKHUYPDck4ChDoATAAegQI

https://books.google.se/books?id=jSNCB6yCJPoC&pg=PA14&dq=terrence+malik+lebanese&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi_g4ek7o_wAhUtl4sKHZNtBH4Q6AEwAHoECAIQAg#v=onepage&q=terrence%20malik%20lebanese&f=false

https://books.google.se/books?id=nEa_33WQkDkC&pg=PT13&dq=terrence+malik+lebanese&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi_g4ek7o_wAhUtl4sKHZNtBH4Q6AEwAXoECAUQAg#v=onepage&q=terrence%20malik%20lebanese&f=false

https://books.google.se/books?id=JMVeCAAAQBAJ&pg=PT68&dq=terrence+malik+lebanese&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi_g4ek7o_wAhUtl4sKHZNtBH4Q6AEwAnoECAMQAg#v=onepage&q=terrence%20malik%20lebanese&f=false

How exactly his Lebanese and Assyrian ancestry as stated in his biographies fits into his family history is not something that we as editors can put together if Malick himself has not stated anything in public about the matter and adding things such as "His father was a Lebanese Assyrian or his father was an Assyrian from Lebanon who emigrated from Lebanon or his father was only Assyrian or only Lebanese etc" would be violating WP:OR since here in Wikipedia we dont interpret or twist or add any OR to the most reliable sources.

As per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research#Primary "Any interpretation of primary source material (which includes synthesis) requires a reliable secondary source for that interpretation" Since there is no reliable secondary source such as an independent academic review from a reputable genealogist such as Henry Louis Gates, the biographies become the main sources and we state exactly what they say until a reputable secondary source debates or questions it.

The Malick family of Terrence Malick and the Malek-Yonan family, the last one being indeed a very ancient family from Urmia, are totally different families as indicated by the official documentation found in the National Archives. The oficial documentation so far does not make a genealogical link between the two families and the surnames are also consistently spelled differently, with the Malick spelling never appearing as Malek nor Malek-Yonan and the Malek-Yonan family always spelled as such in the documents.

The Malick family of Terrence Malick was Presbyterian and seems to be of both Lebanese AND Assyrian descent as per what the primary souces state. Emil, Terrence Malick's father, was baptized in Elmora Presbyterian Church in Elizabeth, New Jersey in 1917 (father appears as Avimalg M) https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid=61048&h=150522150&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=6061 (requires free trial or membership to see)

Emil Malick's grandfather was Jacob (Jacob Moses) Malick as can be seen in his father's social security application here https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/11238934:60901?tid=&pid=&queryId=649af51d80a04ccf73363d2ad5968970&_phsrc=bVu673&_phstart=successSource (requires free trial or membership to see)

In 1906, a Rev Jacob Malick (b. 1846), a preacher of Turkish ancestry (not of Persian or Assyrian ancestry as its always stated with Assyrians from Persia), resident of Urmia, appears traveling from Hamburg to New York in 1906 https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1068&h=2220298&tid=&pid=&queryId=043ba0af2c61d15bcb1245915c18f2f7&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bVu696&_phstart=successSource (requires free trial or membership to see)

Reverend Jacob Moses Malick could have very well been a Lebanese Protestant missionary who converted to Presbyterian when the American and European Protestant mission went to Beirut and Tripoli in the 1840s and then followed the missionaries led by Dr. Perkins and traveled to Urmia during the 1860-1885 period when Presbyterian missionaries where going to Urmia and Armenia https://books.google.se/books?id=7cObDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA199&lpg=PA199&dq=lebanese+in+urmia&source=bl&ots=PpGKKNdr18&sig=ACfU3U0PwsmeqJt-RQl_34jgTaSgJBVwLw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiowZS-sprwAhXolIsKHYHrBJ4Q6AEwEXoECAQQAw#v=onepage&q=lebanese%20in%20urmia&f=false

More on protestant missions to Urmia in the 1860s-1870s https://books.google.se/books?id=7Lqb8HOdNB4C&pg=PA42&lpg=PA42&dq=german+protestant+urmia&source=bl&ots=M0ukzM2i2T&sig=ACfU3U0-69SFqTDen_32O82DosyuZSxVPg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiTpbG0uprwAhVoAxAIHXHZAVMQ6AEwEXoECAoQAw#v=onepage&q=german%20protestant%20urmia&f=false

The Malick family from Btourram/Bterram/Bturan in Lebanon was one of those Christian families that became deeply loyal Presbyterians, with Charles Malick, it most famous member, even joining the Presbyterian missionaries in Egypt before he left to America to study at Harvard https://books.google.se/books?id=SW2YDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA189&dq=Charles+Malik+protestant&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwimzdKn0PnwAhXJvosKHVjUAjIQ6AEwBnoECAoQAg#v=onepage&q=Charles%20Malik%20protestant&f=false

The Malick family was not the only family devoted to Presbyterianism, many important figures of the modern history of Lebanon were Presbyterian converts and a good number of them joined their missions outside of Lebanon in their proselytizing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Protestant_Christians

It is worth pointing out that Terrence Malick's possible relative diplomat Charles Malik (who was a Presbyterian and joined their mission in Cairo), studied philosophy at Oxford (as an exchange or Rhodes from Harvard) and in Germany under German philosopher Martin Heidegger.

Terrence Malick like Charles Malik also studied philosophy in Harvard and went to Oxford as a Rhodes scholar where he did a thesis and translated Martin Heidegger, Charles Malick's teacher, and perhaps even met Heidegger as well between 1965-1969. This could very well be just coincidence but definitely an interesting one.

That Terrence Malick's greatgrandfather was a Lebanese protestant missionary that traveled to Urmia in 1860-1870s is again a possibility that could support what his biographers are saying about his father's ancestry which for now is what we have as the most reliable sources.Chris O' Hare (talk) 19:46, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Once again grasping at straws but this time this is an even bigger reach than F Murray Abraham. There was one book that said he was Lebanese and a couple others ran with it. What's really funny is that one of the books you cited says his father is Lebanese ONLY and doesn't even mention his father being Assyrian from Urmia. Then it states that Malick is Lebanese when no such language exists. Lebanese people speak Arabic. That alone should tell you that it's a horrible source but of course you have an agenda which is why you are writing these long paragraphs that don't prove anything. Then it says that it means king in Arabic when it si originally an Akkadian word and was used by Assyrians long before the Arabs and also has many different ways of being spelled. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malik

The Malick family of Terrence Malick and the Malek-Yonan family, the last one being indeed a very ancient family from Urmia, are totally different families as indicated by the official documentation found in the National Archives. The oficial documentation so far does not make a genealogical link between the two families and the surnames are also consistently spelled differently, with the Malick spelling never appearing as Malek nor Malek-Yonan and the Malek-Yonan family always spelled as such in the documents. Means absolutely nothing and as I already have proven, it can be spelled many different ways in English. For example a prominant Assyrian leader Malik Khoshaba has a different spelling but its also sometimes spelled as Malek Khoshaba. Its the same thing and you are grasping at straws here.

The Malick family of Terrence Malick was Presbyterian and seems to be of both Lebanese AND Assyrian descent as per what the primary souces state. Emil, Terrence Malick's father, was baptized in Elmora Presbyterian Church in Elizabeth, New Jersey in 1917 (father appears as Avimalg M) https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid=61048&h=150522150&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=6061 (requires free trial or membership to see) This argument is just as bad as your previous one. Assyrians from Urmia adhere to different sects of Christianity. For example Anna Eshoo an Assyrian in the US congress from Urmia is a Catholic and most Assyrians from Urmia are actually Catholics. Nothing you said here makes him Lebanese. Urmia has no Lebanese people in it and had a massive Assyrian population in the 1800s and early 1900s and still has many living there today. The name Urmia means place or city of water in Assyrian.

Reverend Jacob Moses Malick could have very well been a Lebanese Protestant missionary who converted to Presbyterian when the American and European Protestant mission went to Beirut and Tripoli in the 1840s and then followed the missionaries led by Dr. Perkins and traveled to Urmia during the 1860-1885 period when Presbyterian missionaries where going to Urmia and Armenia https://books.google.se/books?id=7cObDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA199&lpg=PA199&dq=lebanese+in+urmia&source=bl&ots=PpGKKNdr18&sig=ACfU3U0PwsmeqJt-RQl_34jgTaSgJBVwLw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiowZS-sprwAhXolIsKHYHrBJ4Q6AEwEXoECAQQAw#v=onepage&q=lebanese%20in%20urmia&f=false This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and is one of the biggest reaches I've ever seen.

The Malick family from Btourram/Bterram/Bturan in Lebanon was one of those Christian families that became deeply loyal Presbyterians, with Charles Malick, it most famous member, even joining the Presbyterian missionaries in Egypt before he left to America to study at Harvard https://books.google.se/books?id=SW2YDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA189&dq=Charles+Malik+protestant&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwimzdKn0PnwAhXJvosKHVjUAjIQ6AEwBnoECAoQAg#v=onepage&q=Charles%20Malik%20protestant&f=false What does this have to do with anything?

The Malick family was not the only family devoted to Presbyterianism, many important figures of the modern history of Lebanon were Presbyterian converts and a good number of them joined their missions outside of Lebanon in their proselytizing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Protestant_Christians

It is worth pointing out that Terrence Malick's possible relative diplomat Charles Malik (who was a Presbyterian and joined their mission in Cairo), studied philosophy at Oxford (as an exchange or Rhodes from Harvard) and in Germany under German philosopher Martin Heidegger.

Terrence Malick like Charles Malik also studied philosophy in Harvard and went to Oxford as a Rhodes scholar where he did a thesis and translated Martin Heidegger, Charles Malick's teacher, and perhaps even met Heidegger as well between 1965-1969. This could very well be just coincidence but definitely an interesting one. Is this Wikipedia or a conspiracy theory website? He's an Assyrian from Urmia which had a significant Assyrian population. There is one book that put him down as Lebanese and said his last name has a meaning in a Lebanese language.

That Terrence Malick's greatgrandfather was a Lebanese protestant missionary that traveled to Urmia in 1860-1870s is again a possibility that could support what his biographers are saying about his father's ancestry which for now is what we have as the most reliable sources No it really isn't. It's probably one of the biggest reaches ever on Wikipedia. The people who wrote those books aren't some specialists as shown by them calling "Lebanese" a language and stating his last name is Arabic when it is not. They could have just been paid off to add Lebanese in there as many Arabs and other ethnic groups try to erase the Assyrian name and identity and Arabize everyone, just like you are right now. I'm going to revert your edit and please don't change it. You are being very disruptive with your long posts that prove nothing. Henanton (talk) 21:35, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

"Once again grasping at straws but this time this is an even bigger reach than F Murray Abraham". I dont grasp at straws I present as many reliable sources as I can and follow Wikipedia's policies. And I did specify that the possibility of his Malick ancestor being a foreign protestant missionary from Lebanon was just a theory to consider taking the four biographies and the primary sources as point of reference/evidence.

"There was one book that said he was Lebanese and a couple others ran with it". Its not just a book, its a biography and that the other 3 biographies cited "ran with it" is your own WP:OR. Unfortunately the four biographies is the best thing with have right now.

"Then it states that Malick is Lebanese when no such language exists. Lebanese people speak Arabic". Lebanese people speak Lebanese Arabic, yes there is actually that terminology for it.

"Then it says that it means king in Arabic when it si originally an Akkadian word and was used by Assyrians long before the Arabs and also has many different ways of being spelled". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malik Who cares whether its originally an Akkadian word or from the planet of the Annunakis, the surname Malik/Malick is all over Asia (India, Pakistan and the whole Middle East)

"For example a prominant Assyrian leader Malik Khoshaba has a different spelling but its also sometimes spelled as Malek Khoshaba" Yes, but the famous ancient Malek family from Urmia to whom the Malick family of Terrence Malick has been tried to be connected in the past always goes by MALEK-YONAN, and never do the ancestors of Terrence Malick appear as Malek-Yonan in the official documents in the National Archives, not even ONCE.

"This argument is just as bad as your previous one". I stick to sources and Wikipedia guidelines, which you are constantly trying to ignore and twist as part of your disruption and incompetence.Chris O' Hare (talk) 22:36, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

User:Chris O' Hare

I dont grasp at straws I present as many reliable sources as I can and follow Wikipedia's policies. And I did specify that the possibility of his Malick ancestor being a foreign protestant missionary from Lebanon was just a theory to consider taking the four biographies and the primary sources as point of reference/evidence. Are you kidding me? All your responses in these talk pages are long paragraphs that are full of conspiracy theories and talking about things that have no connection.

Its not just a book, its a biography and that the other 3 biographies cited "ran with it" is your own WP:OR. Unfortunately the four biographies is the best thing with have right now. They literally copied it word for word. They do not even state where that Lebanese comes from. It's clear the one who originally wrote that he has Lebanese ancestry had an agenda considering they even stated his last name means king in the Lebanese language. Lebanese people speak Arabic and identify as Arabs. There is no such thing as a Lebanese language.

Lebanese people speak Lebanese Arabic, yes there is actually that terminology for it. No, they speak Arabic with a different dialect compared to someone from Iraq. There is no language called Lebanese. It's funny you are making it seem like because it's a biography it must be some holy grail source, yet they referred to Lebanese as a language which clearly shows it is an unreliable source.

Who cares whether its originally an Akkadian word or from the planet of the Annunakis, the surname Malik/Malick is all over Asia (India, Pakistan and the whole Middle East) I do and so should you considering you are claiming the book is reliable when they don't even know that it is an Assyrian last name and used by Assyrians originally. Let's see. The book says he is Lebanese, and even says his last name means king in Lebanese. Looks like an agenda to erase the Assyrian name to me.

Yes, but the famous ancient Malek family from Urmia to whom the Malick family of Terrence Malick has been tried to be connected in the past always goes by MALEK-YONAN, and never do the ancestors of Terrence Malick appear as Malek-Yonan in the official documents in the National Archives, not even ONCE. This means nothing. Also there was a post in this talk section http://www.christianpost.com/article/20060828/24042.htm that has since been deleted and was aknowledged by another Wikipedia user. It stated that Rosie Malek Yonans cousin Terrence Malick helped her in getting to testify in DC. There is also this: http://www.aina.org/news/20110227140026.htm

But I was never arguing Terrence being Assyrian. This is about him being Lebanese which is a lie made up by an author.

I stick to sources and Wikipedia guidelines, which you are constantly trying to ignore and twist as part of your disruption and incompetence No you twist sources to fit your agenda. Your only source is a book that refers to Lebanese as a language and doesn't even know the origin of his last name. If it's a reliable source, the author would have known not to refer to Lebanese as a language. What's funny is that source doesn't even mention his Assyrian heritage. It says his father is 100% Lebanese. There were no Lebanese people living in Urmia back then or even now. The Christians were all Assyrian or Armenian. Henanton (talk) 00:14, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Ethnicity Dispute

I just spoke to one of my relatives who is in his 90s. He grew up in Urmia, worked as a civil engineer and left in the years following the Iranian Revolution. I asked him about the different ethnic and religious groups when he was growing up there and he described it as being very pluralistic. He said there were Muslims, Christians and some minorities like Jews, Baháʼí and Zoroastrians.

I asked specifically asked if he ever knew of the presence of any Lebanese Muslims, or Lebanese Christians in Urmia when he was young. He said that there were definitely none.

I would be curious to know what church Terry's father went to. Assyrian and Armenian Christians in that part of the world tend to have a strong ethnoreligious/ethnolinguistic identity underscored by denoting their ethnicity in their church denomination (ex. Assyrian Church of the East, Armenian Apostolic Church) and the services being at least partly in the respective language (ex. Aramaic, Armenian.) There doesn't seem to be such ethnoreligous churches like the Lebanese Maronite Church in Urmia with the respective language like Lebanese Arabic. Lebanese people are amazing with a fascinating and unique culture, but it seems unlikely he is actually Lebanese.

I agree that much is being made of his ethnicity, but considering how underrepresented and often typecasted middle eastern people are in Hollywood, I can understand the intention behind certain ethnic groups for wanting to say someone like Terry is of their ethnicity.

(I'm on a work VPN network so this IP is shared by several users) 8.18.220.189 (talk) 01:04, 22 July 2021 (UTC)